Hosted Datomic?

[Hunter Kelly]

Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?

I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.

Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.

Cheers,

H

[Pelle Braendgaard]

I would be willing to pay for a EC2 hosted transactor service as well.

Pelle

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H
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[Tim Craft]

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?

Also willing to pay for this!

I really want to use Datomic for various apps/projects, but the Datomic Pro
pricing is just not a good fit for the kind of things I'm working on, and I
don't have the time/inclination to setup Datomic Free on AWS myself. A
hosted Datomic service would solve both of these issues.

Best,
Tim

[Henrik Mohr]

Would be willing to pay for this if it somehow included the license (pro).

I'm running just fine with free on ec2 - it's really easy to setup.

BRgds,
Henrik

Post by Tim Craft

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?

Also willing to pay for this!
I really want to use Datomic for various apps/projects, but the Datomic Pro pricing is just not a good fit for the kind of things I'm working on, and I don't have the time/inclination to setup Datomic Free on AWS myself. A hosted Datomic service would solve both of these issues.
Best,
Tim
--

[Nick Zbinden]

Somebody just needs to write a pallet crate and then you can put up the
free instance very fast.

[August Lilleaas]

This is certainly something I would pay for as well. I don't really need to
scale beyond the capabilities of the free transactor yet, but I also don't
want to have to manage my own transactor since I'm already hosting my other
stuff on PaaS providers.

Hopefully the Datomic team will stop writing code and become sysadmins
instead ;)

Alternatively, partner with a PaaS provider like AppFog or Heroku. I bet
you hadn't thought of that!

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[vemv]

I reckon a +1 doesn't contribute a lot but hey, I feel that pay-as-you-go
pricing scheme would be very much welcome in the community.

[Stuart Halloway]

We hear, and consider.

Stu

Post by vemv
I reckon a +1 doesn't contribute a lot but hey, I feel that pay-as-you-go
pricing scheme would be very much welcome in the community.
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[Mads Olsen]

Apart from Datomic not having reached version 1 yet, to me worries about
how to keep the database available at all times are a prime obstacle to
selecting Datomic for customer projects.
A hosted and constantly monitored Datomic service would certainly do much
to alleviate fears in this direction - as would a possibility of connecting
to a database for reading, even when no transactor is running.

/Mads

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 2:23 AM, Stuart Halloway

Post by Stuart Halloway
We hear, and consider.
Stu

Post by vemv
I reckon a +1 doesn't contribute a lot but hey, I feel that pay-as-you-go
pricing scheme would be very much welcome in the community.
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[Mike Pence]

So still no solution for using a hosted Datomic solution with heroku or
something?

Post by Mads Olsen
Apart from Datomic not having reached version 1 yet, to me worries about
how to keep the database available at all times are a prime obstacle to
selecting Datomic for customer projects.
A hosted and constantly monitored Datomic service would certainly do much
to alleviate fears in this direction - as would a possibility of connecting
to a database for reading, even when no transactor is running.
/Mads

Post by Stuart Halloway
We hear, and consider.
Stu

Post by vemv
I reckon a +1 doesn't contribute a lot but hey, I feel that

pay-as-you-go

Post by vemv
pricing scheme would be very much welcome in the community.
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Post by vemv
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send email to
this group at

Post by vemv
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/datomic?hl=en

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[Mike Haney]

I had a nice conversation with Alex Warr from Cognitect during the conj, and explained to him my situation and how useful a hosted option for Datomic would be for my customers. He couldn't give any specifics of course, but strongly implied there may be a solution within the timeframe I mentioned this becoming a critical need (6 months). That's all pretty vague, I know, but it at least sounds like this is working its way up their priority list.

I also believe that if Cognitect doesn't offer this service, someone else eventually will. For instance, if all goes well in 12 months I could find myself having to manage a large multi-tenant Datomic installation shared between numerous smaller customers, which is not really something I want to do, but if in that position I would certainly explore the possibility of turning that into a separate paid service. I'm sure I'm not the first one to have thought about that either.

[t***@gmail.com]

Mike Haney: You should probably read the EULA again. I'm not a lawyer, but
it seems like both the licenses are clear that what you want to do isn't
allowed without Cognitect's express permission via a separate arrangement.
-Zack

Post by Mike Haney
I had a nice conversation with Alex Warr from Cognitect during the conj,
and explained to him my situation and how useful a hosted option for
Datomic would be for my customers. He couldn't give any specifics of
course, but strongly implied there may be a solution within the timeframe I
mentioned this becoming a critical need (6 months). That's all pretty
vague, I know, but it at least sounds like this is working its way up their
priority list.
I also believe that if Cognitect doesn't offer this service, someone else
eventually will. For instance, if all goes well in 12 months I could find
myself having to manage a large multi-tenant Datomic installation shared
between numerous smaller customers, which is not really something I want to
do, but if in that position I would certainly explore the possibility of
turning that into a separate paid service. I'm sure I'm not the first one
to have thought about that either.

[Mike Haney]

Like I said, it's not what I want to do - I'm in the "solving problems for my customers" business, and have little interest in entering the hosting business. I was simply pointing out a situation where it might make sense to evaluate providing that service, and obviously if it ever came to that, licensing would be one of the many issues that would need to be addressed.

I would much prefer that Cognitect offer that service, and they are in a far better position to do that anyway.

[Marcus Holst]

I will probably start using Datomic in an enterprise system utilizing
Heroku web servers within the next 2-4 months. The choice to use Datomic
would have been so much easier if there were a Heroku hosted option to look
at!

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Wei Hsu]

+1.

Currently, I run a small Datomic instance on EC2 / DynamoDB which costs
roughly $20 /month, so that would be the price to beat for a low-tier
hosted solution.

Post by Marcus Holst
I will probably start using Datomic in an enterprise system utilizing
Heroku web servers within the next 2-4 months. The choice to use Datomic
would have been so much easier if there were a Heroku hosted option to look
at!

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Paul Evans]

For what it's worth, I'm able to run Datomic Pro Starter Edition on a $5/mo
Digital Ocean Ubuntu droplet (500M RAM). I give the transactor Xms64m,
Xmx256m, and I scale down the cache/index properties by a factor of 4. My
Clojure app is a REST service using Liberator (sorry Pedestal team)
deployed as a JAR built using and uses Jetty. I run it using Xms256 and
Xmx512. The droplet is also running Nginx (fronting my Jetty instance and
using SSL) and Postgresql (my backing data service for Datomic). So far
it's working great for my side-project.

-Paul

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Paul Evans]

For what it's worth, I'm able to run Datomic Pro Starter Edition on a $5/mo
Digital Ocean Ubuntu droplet (500M RAM). I give the transactor Xms64m,
Xmx256m, and I scale down the cache/index properties by a factor of 4. My
Clojure app is a REST service using Liberator (sorry Pedestal team)
deployed as a JAR built using and uses Jetty. I run it using Xms256 and
Xmx512. The droplet is also running Nginx (fronting my Jetty instance and
using SSL) and Postgresql (my backing data service for Datomic). So far
it's working great for my side-project.

-Paul

[Paul Evans]

For what it's worth, I'm able to run Datomic Pro Starter Edition on a
$10/mo Digital Ocean Ubuntu droplet (1G RAM). I give the transactor
Xms64m, Xmx256m, and I scale down the cache/index properties by a factor of
4. My Clojure app is a REST service using Liberator (sorry Pedestal team)
deployed as a JAR built using and uses Jetty. I run it using Xms256 and
Xmx512. The droplet is also running Nginx (fronting my Jetty instance and
using SSL) and Postgresql (my backing data service for Datomic). So far
it's working great for my side-project.

-Paul

[Erik Petersen]

Thanks Paul.

I'm also running a side project on a $10 droplet but get occasional crashes
due to native memory (just started hosting last weekend). I'll update with
your settings and give it a shot.

I'm using the free transactor with h2 currently. I plan to move to
postgres (no idea what impact that will have).

(I'm a devops idiot so this morning I created a swapfile to see if that
helps .. so far so good in terms of memory but I did have the transactor
die once due to heartbeat failure, no idea if related to memory).

Post by Paul Evans
For what it's worth, I'm able to run Datomic Pro Starter Edition on a
$10/mo Digital Ocean Ubuntu droplet (1G RAM). I give the transactor
Xms64m, Xmx256m, and I scale down the cache/index properties by a factor of
4. My Clojure app is a REST service using Liberator (sorry Pedestal team)
deployed as a JAR built using and uses Jetty. I run it using Xms256 and
Xmx512. The droplet is also running Nginx (fronting my Jetty instance and
using SSL) and Postgresql (my backing data service for Datomic). So far
it's working great for my side-project.
-Paul

[Dustin Whitney]

just adding my +1 to this. Would use!

Post by Erik Petersen
Thanks Paul.
I'm also running a side project on a $10 droplet but get occasional
crashes due to native memory (just started hosting last weekend). I'll
update with your settings and give it a shot.
I'm using the free transactor with h2 currently. I plan to move to
postgres (no idea what impact that will have).
(I'm a devops idiot so this morning I created a swapfile to see if that
helps .. so far so good in terms of memory but I did have the transactor
die once due to heartbeat failure, no idea if related to memory).

Post by Paul Evans
For what it's worth, I'm able to run Datomic Pro Starter Edition on a
$10/mo Digital Ocean Ubuntu droplet (1G RAM). I give the transactor
Xms64m, Xmx256m, and I scale down the cache/index properties by a factor of
4. My Clojure app is a REST service using Liberator (sorry Pedestal team)
deployed as a JAR built using and uses Jetty. I run it using Xms256 and
Xmx512. The droplet is also running Nginx (fronting my Jetty instance and
using SSL) and Postgresql (my backing data service for Datomic). So far
it's working great for my side-project.
-Paul

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[Ivan Reese]

Yet another +1. Going to be using Datomic for a small company project this fall, and would love to avoid getting my hands dirty with *shudder* devops work.

Ivan Reese

[Alistair Roche]

Can anyone go into more detail on why running a hosted Datomic service
would be a problem re. licenses? Isn't it just a matter of making sure I
have the appropriate licences for the Datomic transactors I run? Also,
would it be possible to have multiple users using the same transactor, but
only having access to particular databases?

Post by Ivan Reese
Yet another +1. Going to be using Datomic for a small company project this
fall, and would love to avoid getting my hands dirty with *shudder* devops
work.
Ivan Reese

[Dave Bryand]

I'm also a fan of this idea. I'm now hooked on Datomic and want all of my
hipster SF startup friends to try it, but the friction to even sample the
goods right now is so high that very few people I know take the time to
give it a proper go.

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Mond Ray]

Please see my blog post on how you can get Datomic up and running on Heroku

http://blog.opengrail.com/jekyll/update/2015/11/19/datomic-heroku-spaces.html

It requires
1) an enterprise agreement with Heroku
2) access to their Private Spaces service (currently in closed beta)

Given that, it works with Free or Pro versions of Datomic (you must manage
and own the license yourself).

I hope that I show that Heroku offers a convenience that is unparalleled
but the cost aspects of hosting it on Heroku should not be ignored.

Ray

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Ray McDermott]

Over the past few days I have also added support for the simple DynamoDB
that Datomic can automate to the buildpack (was just Heroku Postgres
before).

The github docs are updated with details but I have not yet updated the
blog post.

Post by Mond Ray
Please see my blog post on how you can get Datomic up and running on Heroku
http://blog.opengrail.com/jekyll/update/2015/11/19/datomic-heroku-spaces.html
It requires
1) an enterprise agreement with Heroku
2) access to their Private Spaces service (currently in closed beta)
Given that, it works with Free or Pro versions of Datomic (you must manage
and own the license yourself).
I hope that I show that Heroku offers a convenience that is unparalleled
but the cost aspects of hosting it on Heroku should not be ignored.
Ray

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Pavel Repin]

++ to the idea of metered Datomic as a service. In fact, I was thinking to
build a service like that, but got bogged down on legal details like: "Is
that even allowed by Datomic Pro licensing model?"

Since the conversation has drifted to Heroku, I'd like to mention that
we've put together a Heroku buildpack/standalone-peer-service
<https://github.com/upworthy/datomic-peer-svc> that we use to talk to a
Datomic transactor (provisioned using the documented
<http://docs.datomic.com/aws.html> CloudFormation mechanism, in our case).

This thing has two modes of operation:

- *"Buildpack":* when this project is used as a buildpack, it installs
Datomic REST server bound to localhost:${DATOMIC_REST_PORT:-8777} running
as a daemon on the same dyno as the affected app. This is useful for
non-JVM Heroku apps that wish to use Datomic. As a result, the app and the
datomic peer (REST server) compete for resources of a dyno. The buildpack
address that by restricting memory resources devoted to Datomic REST server
based on Heroku dyno size.
- *"Standalone":* when this project is deployed as a Heroku app, it
presents itself as Datomic Console webapp protected with Google
authentication.

Post by Ray McDermott
Over the past few days I have also added support for the simple DynamoDB
that Datomic can automate to the buildpack (was just Heroku Postgres
before).
The github docs are updated with details but I have not yet updated the
blog post.

Post by Mond Ray
Please see my blog post on how you can get Datomic up and running on Heroku
http://blog.opengrail.com/jekyll/update/2015/11/19/datomic-heroku-spaces.html
It requires
1) an enterprise agreement with Heroku
2) access to their Private Spaces service (currently in closed beta)
Given that, it works with Free or Pro versions of Datomic (you must
manage and own the license yourself).
I hope that I show that Heroku offers a convenience that is unparalleled
but the cost aspects of hosting it on Heroku should not be ignored.
Ray

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Ray McDermott]

Great stuff - thanks Pavel!

Would you mind if I played around with it and integrated it my stuff? That
way non-JVM hosts could talk to the Heroku transactor services / console
too.

Ray

Post by Pavel Repin
++ to the idea of metered Datomic as a service. In fact, I was thinking to
build a service like that, but got bogged down on legal details like: "Is
that even allowed by Datomic Pro licensing model?"
Since the conversation has drifted to Heroku, I'd like to mention that
we've put together a Heroku buildpack/standalone-peer-service
<https://github.com/upworthy/datomic-peer-svc> that we use to talk to a
Datomic transactor (provisioned using the documented
<http://docs.datomic.com/aws.html> CloudFormation mechanism, in our case).
- *"Buildpack":* when this project is used as a buildpack, it installs
Datomic REST server bound to localhost:${DATOMIC_REST_PORT:-8777} running
as a daemon on the same dyno as the affected app. This is useful for
non-JVM Heroku apps that wish to use Datomic. As a result, the app and the
datomic peer (REST server) compete for resources of a dyno. The buildpack
address that by restricting memory resources devoted to Datomic REST server
based on Heroku dyno size.
- *"Standalone":* when this project is deployed as a Heroku app, it
presents itself as Datomic Console webapp protected with Google
authentication.

Post by Ray McDermott
Over the past few days I have also added support for the simple DynamoDB
that Datomic can automate to the buildpack (was just Heroku Postgres
before).
The github docs are updated with details but I have not yet updated the
blog post.

Post by Mond Ray
Please see my blog post on how you can get Datomic up and running on Heroku
http://blog.opengrail.com/jekyll/update/2015/11/19/datomic-heroku-spaces.html
It requires
1) an enterprise agreement with Heroku
2) access to their Private Spaces service (currently in closed beta)
Given that, it works with Free or Pro versions of Datomic (you must
manage and own the license yourself).
I hope that I show that Heroku offers a convenience that is unparalleled
but the cost aspects of hosting it on Heroku should not be ignored.
Ray

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Ertuğrul Çetin]

That would be great! Like mongoLab(mLab) and you just need DB URI which is
very easy to work with! I'm also willing to pay for it.

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

[Ray McDermott]

Sadly this is not currently allowed by Cognitect

Ray

Post by Ertuğrul Çetin
That would be great! Like mongoLab(mLab) and you just need DB URI which is
very easy to work with! I'm also willing to pay for it.

Post by Hunter Kelly
Are there any plans to have a hosted Datomic?
I'm using Datomic in work and have become hooked. I want to write some
small apps to throw up on Heroku (or other PaaS providers that support
clojure, I haven't seen any but haven't done any exhaustive research). The
problem is that for a small, quite possibly throwaway app, the initial
license is a bit steep. If there were some hosted solution for the early
stages of a project, while trialing the feasibility, that would be great.
Having a dynamo backed Datomic DB that one could connect to from Heroko
would be great.
Cheers,
H

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